122804-stop-wasting-effort-on-new-content-that-does-not-allow-progression-page-5

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Can I get out of paying for housing and PvP then? You know what would happens to this game if you took DS out? You'd lose far more people than just 10%. Anyway, I'll bet that eventually more than 10% of the population will see DS.


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The problem with gearing up is that it has just been made exponentially easier with the new itemization. In fact, the biggest criticism about progression PVE gear is that it's TOO easy, it increases the main and secondary stats to an incredible degree so that you can blitz through. The barrier to entry into DS really isn't any higher than the one into GA, and even into veteran dungeons. You just need gear to get in. However, in all of this, there are gems. I'm heavily against making the content easier, but I'm not entirely against giving people a supplementary gear gain. An easy way would be to put smidge-below GA level raid gear on a vendor, tied to boss kills (i.e., you can only get it as you kill bosses). If RNG isn't favoring you, have that gear cost a certain amount of Elder Gems, Glory, AND Renown. That way, if you want to take advantage of blitz-gained gear, it takes running the other PVE content pretty often, especially in groups where you're more visible to the rest of the PVE population. I wouldn't be opposed to that. What do raiders have to spend currency on these days? Make it kind of expensive so people are still farming GA a while, but make sure they cleared the bosses so that you can't just buy into DS once you finish attunement.


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Just like how 1800 pvp gear was available to everyone. There were no barriers, at all. So there was no reason to tighten the gear gap, or make the gear available for prestige. -_-  The eventual ability to get into DS is in fact, available to everyone. But, the barriers to entry make it less accessible than it should be. We also want to realize that you're not going to sustain a game on raiders alone, and that you need group content runners, casuals etc. You've seen the lowpoints of this game when it caters to raiders and makes them a priority, the game dipped super low. Patch 4 came, offering a whole slew of new quality of life fixes and content for non-raiders, and it has been widely regarded as successful and positive for the health of the game. Sure, there will always be hardcore guilds, but getting the casuals into the raiding content, or at least making it accessible to them is the end goal. It's how you sustain an MMO, it is how FFXIV has been successful, WoW has been successful, GW2 is successful, you name it.

I don't know, can I get out of paying for anything but PvP, or can I pay extra for better PvP content? I don't know what would happen if you took out DS, but that's not really a good argument considering it's never going to be on the table. A better argument would be, how many players would we lose / would it cost CRB if they stopped focusing on end-game raiding in favor of more casual content. Probably not as many as catering to raiders. It's all about opportunity cost. ... and I hope that eventually more than 10% of the population will see DS.... but--- do you think that's actually the case? What if this game blew up in subscribers? What percentage of WoW's population are "hardcore raiders." What percentage are raiders? When you're looking to capture market share, you need to understand your audience. If Carbine is targetting the 1 million people that like raids in WoW, in a 10 million subscriber game, they're not going to hit very many people, compared to the 9 million that are playing for other aspects.


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I've never liked single player games. I could never get into them. I played legend of zelda and starfox on the nintendo 64, but I can't really find the patience to sit through single player games anymore. ... and no, no I'm not. I never said you could jump straight into Avatus once you had similar gear. You still have to go through GA / DS to get to Avatus. You can't just kill System Daemons and go straight to Avatus. You've made a very poor example here. A better example would be if Mario had to have a health bar with 40 mushrooms, 10 fireflowers that multiply his damage that he obtained RNG while completing bosses over and over until enough fireflowers dropped to kill Bowser. Mario gets it, you got the same little guy, with the same amount of hitpoints, who does the same amount of damage when jumps on somethings head. He goes through different levels, with different encounters, but he's the same little plumber woopin' ass no matter what. Gear Tiering in MMOs is an artificial timesink used to extend playtime and content. FFXIV timegates the alternative gear they give to people, making it so that the less skilled / dedicated people EVENTUALLY overtime have the opportunity to see the end-game content. Hardcore players get the content finished faster because that's what they are. FFXIV just lets the casual guilds, like your own, sufficiently gear up and stay competitive while also providing vertical progression. But I guess it's just a fundamental way to look at things. You look at it in the way that getting to the end-boss and challenging him requires going through all the content pathways, getting the specific gear required over months etc, with RNG, crafting time investment, etc. I look at PvE progression as new and challenging content that requires 19 other people to work together, find strategies, schedule appropriately, and have a good time. I would never want to sit a good player / put someone on the bench because their set pieces haven't dropped for the last 3 weeks, and their gear is lagging behind. But hey, it's an MMO with people. Some people like the grouping and teamwork aspect, some people don't. That's why I enjoy pvp.

I just found it amusing based on some of the posts in the thread.


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If you are referring to LFR, you can't possibly even call that raiding. No joke I had my 8 year old do LFR for me when he has never touched an MMO before. That's not even dungeon caliber content. It's Q for X and collect free welfare epics. But that seems to be what you are looking for


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You, sir, have no idea what the problem is. If you're talking about an actual problem, the problem is not that bad players will log in with that gear and suddenly kill SD. The biggest fear is that those people will log in, not be good enough to kill SD, and will essentially waste the time and coordinated efforts of 19 other people. The longer term fear is that, as is happening now, people will be given a rainbow bridge across a relatively insignificant issue (to raid at higher levels, you must continue to raid and get gear), be stopped short on SD, and then that will be overtuned. And you'll get what you had in the first place, with people complaining that the difficulty is just too high. Then there's the idea that, no, they haven't earned it and, more importantly, don't need it. There's no solo or five man content that requires raiding gear. Why would someone interested in solo or five man content need it? Raiding gear is for raiding players, people who undertake the herculean task of making sure 20 people are online for the same four hours and run the same instance. It doesn't need surmounting except by people who don't even really want to do it. As I said, Carbine's under no compunction to give me 1800 rated arena gear simply because I want it, and I'm not really into this whole dying-and-losing-matches-now-and-then thing. People would, rightly, say, "You know, maybe you actually don't like PVP, and you don't really need PVP gear if you have no interest in PVPing." Same with raiding. The only people looking for a way to bypass the actual portion where you raid are people who really aren't into raiding; ironic as the only thing that requires raiding gear is raiding. And this is coming from a guy who isn't raiding right now. One day, maybe I'll pick it up, the same as PVP. But I don't deserve to just be handed DS gear because I run STL with my friends, that couldn't be more different from an actual raiding guild. Beyond even deserving it, nobody like me needs to have raiding gear since we're not raiding.


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