124303-want-more-players-lfrduty-finder-page-5

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the step you missed in between theory and execution is "game design". there are many way to gate the entry to avatus. i mean, some of them are already there in wildstar (need the attunement). but it could be worked in a much better way. basically, you don't need "stats" to create barriers of entry. there are ways to do progression without involving "+1 strength". maybe you need a special protective armor against radiation, maybe you need to unlock skills, maybe you need to do a chain quest. also, by having all your world (sphere) as available content to replay, you can more easily put in incentive to do everything. maybe some kind of crafting metal is only found in sanctuary of the sword maiden ? maybe each instances have their own unique set of skins to farm ? (like gw2) maybe only whitewale spawns the yetis that drop the materials to make the best medishots? the idea would be to have your whole world and every instances relevant at every step of the game and be able to weave a story into it. you can still have harder content. you can still have some vertical progression at different steps. but as a whole, the game wouldn't be on rail to the top of the pyramid without no reason at all to go farm copper mines (or any other "low level mats"). make everything relevant instead of making "tiers" of things i.e.: bad metal at level 1, ok metal at level 10, good metal at level 25, super good metal at 50. (that is wrong in my book). all metals should be kind of equally useful depending on what you need to do.


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Why on earth would people do LFR content that gives them worse rewards than repeatable dungeon content? (progression goes Shiphands->Adventures->Dungeons->Raids) Not to mention that all raid content is time gated as opposed to dungeons which a player can keep running until they get the gear that they want/need. I cannot see any logic in this way of thinking what so ever.


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And there it is. There's the problem. People "say" they don't care about the rewards, but the fact is, the majority do. And no fault of theirs, really... that is the game's design: collect items to better your character.

People expect raids to give out better rewards than other content, but the fact of the matter is LFR is not raiding. It's solo content (and the easiest type of solo content, for that matter.)


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I see. So the entirety of the argument that a boss would have to be one-shot--outlined in red--is inferred from the additional inference on your part that what everyone but me wants is for the entire raid instance to be completeable in an hour. They wouldn't accept or tolerate checkpoints that they have to clear in order to PUG again from that same checkpoint. They would howl in outrage if their current checkpoint were reset every week. They'd rather have something they can one-shot. I really didn't see you as the type for troll posts, Jeff. Guess I was wrong. And the entirety of the argument in blue is summarized by "I'm not saying this, but... exactly this." Your definition of fun is not everyone's definition of fun. Your degree of skill and practice is not everyone's degree of skill and practice. Your level of commitment is not everyone's level of commitment.

When you're talking about how long it takes people to clear Vet Dungeons while learning them, all content takes longer when you're first learning it than it will when you've done it a few times. LFR does not have to be successfully completeable in an hour the first time you walk into it, so this is just a straw man. As for the rest, large group mechanics like simultaneous engagement of multiple things by full teams are not even possible in Veteran Dungeons. If I recall correctly, this is part of the reason that raiders have repeatedly tried to argue that no content with fewer people could possibly be tuned to rival raids in difficulty. And although they are wrong about that last point, they are right that the mechanics that can be implemented in a large-group instance are quite different from those that can be implemented in a small group instance. That's always going to be the tradeoff: the larger the group is, the more specific and involved their role becomes, but at the same time the wider the time window becomes in which all members can be expected to do their part. You can't demand the same level of overall task precision from all members of a large group as you can from a small one and say that the instances are tuned to the same difficulty--they simply aren't. To tune them to the same difficulty, you have to expect a higher level of precise success for the group as a whole as the group size goes down. That's just a fundamental feature of increased statistical sampling around average reaction times. If LFR required the kind of insta-wipe high precision and coordination of a Vet Dungeon AND the kind of large group mechanics of a raid, then there would be no reason to withhold raid-level gear because it would just BE GA.

If you seriously think that raiders will be forced into LFR if it has rewards comparable to Vet Dungeons, then I don't think you understand what the word "comparable" means. And even if the rewards are comparable, Vet Dungeons are a more efficient route to the normal raids because they not only provide that level of gear but also are required for attunement. LFR remains entirely skippable for anyone who doesn't want to do it.


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Yes, it would be terrible if people decided to stay in the game and keep subscribing. I certainly hope the developers aren't doing anything that would encourage that, like making fun content that has broad accessibility and high replay value to accomodate the diverse needs of a large MMORPG playerbase.

Of course you're not. You're just claiming that's what everyone who doesn't agree with you wants. And you're entirely wrong on that point, and increasingly funny in your efforts to act like you weren't doing exactly what you were doing rather than just swallowing your pride a little and admitting that maybe LFR proponents aren't really advocating for the faceroll you're attributing to them. So by all means, continue to deflect.


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