102403-is-sticking-it-out-actually-a-thing

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Well yeah, different media, different people and just different in general. Games aren't easy, and with today's games, they become even more complicated.


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instead what'll probably happen is a slow bleed for a few months/year until everything is fixed up  and the "hardcores" have gnashed their teeths a bit and ran off screaming vengeance. then the game either runs a massive ad campaign or a f2p style deal to attract back players ala ToR or Rift.


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I don't mind pay-to-win in a f2p game, but I firmly believe that a sub-based game should remain a level playing field for everyone paying a sub. That said, yeah, there are definitely elements of this game that scream that they're planning to go f2p sooner rather than later. Obnoxiously priced mounts, a per-character RNG-based dye system, limited bag space that puts many f2p titles to shame...


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Not according to Carbine. I'm pretty sure an internet search would find the interview where Gaffney (I thinK) is talking about how great its been with NCsoft and how they have been allowed to make all the decisions and NCsoft basically kept out of it and gave them room to do what they needed. they were not forced by NCsoft to release the game is what Carbine says so I assume that is true. I know everyone loves to make NCsoft the bad guy but this time the blame lies with Carbine whether you like it or not.


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lol why...its fun to watch. Its like watching "real house husbands of nexus" lol.


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It is possible to release a MMO with no bug, optimization or balance issues - it just isn't practical. Games can't stay in beta for 10 years; launching 2 months early probably cost them a few subs. This is a big game with a lot of stuff at launch, the number of problems simply reflect the scope. You could release Pong with zero issues, but I doubt you could charge a subscription for that. I like the game so far so I'm "sticking it out" - playing and having fun while devs make it better. If there comes a point where I'm not having fun or the devs stop working on it, I'll stop playing.


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Probably because other media doesn't have millions of individuals, who follow their own programmed preferences, shooting holes in an entire virtual world across multiple platforms from angles only live fire action can identify. PoS smart phones will be bug-free long before MMOs are because their platforms are singular and contained by comparison. But apps can be made to work for both Android as well as iPhone platforms! Indeed ... but so can WildStar's addons. The day apps and addons become their own virtual MMO worlds is the day PC gaming moves almost exclusively to simulations.


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Proves my point eh? If it's already happening in a small amount, increasing in the Greenlight/Kickstarter phase (although I'm cool with Kickstarter because it actually makes good products unlike Rock simulator) Which brings me to my issue of indie gaming sites other than kickstarter Rock simulator $5 pledge Literally, they'll send you a picture of a rock. Wtf kind of stupidity is humanity coming to?


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SHUT UP! There's nothing wrong with hybrid octopus flying sharks. In fact! all those hybrid movies are just pure originality with some fine fine acting Piranhaconda

Sharkman!

dinocroc vs supergator "Dino-mite and Croc-tastic!

Sharktopus

megapython vs gatoriod

WHAT'S NOT TO LOVE?! WHAT'S NOT TO LOVE I SAY!


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If only bugs were the only problem. Wildstar is 99.9% prep work, it's just not worth it. Grind for this, get rep for that, go do this for attunement, grind elder gems for a month to buy a skill point... The entire game is a bunch of busy work and it's boring. No, all mmos are not this tedious and boring. There are serious, fundamental design problems with the game. Most people are stuck at 50 and quitting while there's an entire world filled with trivial, solo quests. Hundreds and hundreds of trivial quests and a handful of instances, half of them aren't even very good. It's not really hard to see what the problem is. They made a "harcore mmo" and filled it with the most boring, solo content possible and not nearly enough group content. PvP being very poorly balanced certainly doesn't help either. Endgame is simply a disaster. It sounds dramatic, but it's true and the game is suffering as a result.


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Sure. And, as someone who's been playing MMOs for over a decade, I can give you two really good reasons for it: No MMO in history has ever shipped with anything resembling well-balanced combat. Skipping the first three to four months saves you endless drama over what gets nerfed and what gets buffed. If you wait until the first big balance patch, your favorite character never gets nerfed (or at least not as hard as the overpowered character builds do in that first balance pass). Here's something that every failed MMO of the last decade has had in common: at about the three month mark, they laid off about 70% of the developers and gave up on shipping new content more than, say, once or twice a year, and gave up on patching exploits much more often than, say, every couple of months. Waiting to see if an MMO developer is going to do that can be a self-fulfilling prophesy, I grant, but it saves you the annoyance of investing a couple of months in a character that you're just going to abandon out of boredom anyway. This, I contend, is the truth behind the over-used claim of "WoW Tourism," the meme that nobody wants to leave WoW, they just wish WoW shipped content more often, so between WoW content drops they spend a month or two in another MMO. I think that's mostly bull. I think a lot of people are bored with WoW, but publishers, who almost all have had way implausibly inflated estimates of what the second and third month revenues would be, panic and kill their own MMOs in the third or fourth month, sending people back to WoW.

So, yeah. Having played (just to name a few disappointments) Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, Star Trek Online, The Secret World, and Defiance? and having left all of them in boredom when the content patches stopped coming in a timely manner? If I hadn't been at a really good stopping point in the game I was playing before this, I would have done the same thing your friends are doing, waited a couple of months to see if NCsoft and Carbine were going to kill this one with mass layoffs, and if the players were going to kill it with massive over-reactions to much-needed nerfs, before investing money, and then this many hours, in a new MMO.


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They might aggressively sell the game later after they have done more polishing but they need to take care of other factors first.. i doubt they would go f2p since the credd system is in place to prevent that. Eve is still sub base with a moderate community with a similar system. I think thats what carbine is shooting for.


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I dont know, I still have a lot of fun logging in and playing. but then I have never regarded end game as the place the game "starts". for me, the game starts teh first time my character steps into the world and I enjoy the journey. thus far, the journey is a lot of fun and have not found anything I consider boring or a "job" yet. it is still a nice escape


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I think its more the design choices... most of us players have had to sit back in many mmo's while they where addressing bugs so the community as a whole is used to it.. But there are some decisions that carbine has made that does create a feeling of being overwhelmed and well lets face it... frustration leads to boredom because not everyone wants to scale a mountain to get a glass of water. I say give it time.. this is a big balancing act on carbine's part since they set out to tackle a tough crowed to please with a new IP.


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Watch out guys, it's on par with a game released in OCT 2003!


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Or you can, hear me out now, you can remove the limit on elder gems so we can actually get amp and ability points if we play enough. I mean, for a #hardcore game, they sure don't like giving things to people who play too much. Waiting 3 weeks for EG resets to get your actionset for PvP #hardcore. Buying crafted from AH to skip everything till 20 man's save for attunement #hardcore. Skipping half the dungeon for attunement #hardcore.


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the release seems a lot better than many in recent history in terms of bugs etc. its all perspective however, they were waxing poetic about Rifts before being brought up short in another thread. its safe to say they just dislike the game, why they continue to stay with it is likely just to continue posting. my view is, if you like playing, keep playing, if you dont, tell them how you feel with your money.


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Maybe it's because they are tired hearing you whining on everything. I don't regret buying the game and i'm having a lot of fun playing it. So i guess you should just wait out and-or play something else.


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Try explaining that to Carbine in a couple months when they start balancing around maxed amps/ability points when almost nobody has them. Better yet in two years (assuming the game survives that long) when everybody has them except the new players who will have to wait for 6 months to get the amp/ability points. Yes wait. There's no skill or hardcore involved in waiting a week for your cap to reset. Just pure sub time. This game isn't set up for growing in subs at all. Just dwindling. This game is already designed to be f2p. Pay $50 for one amp point incoming.


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If you're hardcore enough as a fresh 1.6m sp newbie in Eve you can go ninja salvage / pvp / suicide gank / mission your way to getting enough isk to purchase a 60m+ sp pilot and skip a few years of skilling. The equivalent would be amp/ability points being something that players take from themselves to sell to you. Which isn't the case in Wildstar. They're basically nonexistant outside of being purchased from the elder gem merchant.


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I haven't heard any statements from carbine that you will have to be cap at your points to do any of the upcomming content. Nah it will be like most other games that have a similar system new players will see its a time sink.. and play like nothing is happening putting the notion of getting more points on the back burner with intent to get them later.. like many players have done already. And no its not designed to be F2P...its designed specifically to be sub.. thats why you got shit thats going to take quite a while to complete..


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Considering Wildstar was supposed to be the game to break the mold and it hasn't. "This game is for the jaded MMO players." It sure as *cupcake* is, it's proof that people don't learn from their mistakes.


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I'm just surprised at how they got so much wrong despite their love of Metrics(Hey let's not do what that uber-successful game is doing now. Let's do what they did 10 years ago!!!! lol). I think they listened to Mr. Jaded way too much. Mr. Jaded wants you  to rebuild and compete with his memory. Mr. Jaded has no idea what makes a good MMORPG. He's too busy being resentful of that popular MMORPG success overshadowing and killing the MMO he wishes they all were instead of recognizing what that popular MMORPG does well. This MMORPG was made for the Jaded MMORPGer. Too bad for Carbine that the reality is MOST of us enjoyed our time in that popular MMORPG. Being as fundamentally good and philosophically different as that popular MMORPG but not so far away from the standards it set that you appear radical or even Archaic, while being Mechanically different but in a good way, is a much better idea than chasing Jaded MMORPG players. They are typically stuck in the past, borderline masochistic or paranoid that they won't be as good. Carbine listened to them and here we are.


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Best way to make a company listen? Hit the profit margins. If you keep showing up to buy starbucks when it tastes like mud, they'll think "Man, this new mud flavour is a hit!" and well... things stay the same or get more muddy.


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Thats part of the problem right there.. is hoping there will be change.. there will be change to what degree who know's I don't play the game to wait i play the game cuz i got friends and guildmates who do and we find stuff to do despite whether or not we disagree with some of the elements in the game..Sure ive had plenty of moments where i logged out look at the ceiling and say"Why!" The game isn't bad enough for me to want to quit atm. Actually quite the opposite.. and im no fanboy of the game by any means. I do have my concerns mostly with faction balances and the customization being as bad as it is..as well as itemization but so far most of these are issues that carbine has intent on dealing with..


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Indeed & Agreed... believe the "jaded gamer" could also be loosely referred to as "hipster". :D

Wow, just looked at that link... knew the numbers were good, wasn't aware THAT good... nice! Gonna' have to bookmark that... we're on server Malboro. B)


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Amen to this! I was actually a part of the whole closed beta thing in Wildstar. I pointed out as did a lot of others that this game was not ready for a launch. A lot of people were actually telling Carbine to do a winter 2014 launch but they didn't listen.


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