110172-a-conversation-what-is-hardcore-really

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Thanks for the contribution. This is an interesting take on the question, "What is hardcore?" and brings to light the largely segmented viewpoints of the community. Personally, throughout this discussion, I have focused moreso on considering what you call 'skill' as 'hardcore'. It appears that in large the community does agree on what requires skill and what doesn't, although we may choose to define each case with different terminology. Your points are valid. I can see a skilled raider logging in for raids and being successful, regardless of time vested. Personally I can't call time 'hardcore' per say, although it would appear that for many this is indeed the case. Good post, appreciate your sharing. I am curious, if you could be so kind, what are your opinions on skill as discussed in the conversation in the OP?


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By your logic, you are always right and there is no point in discussion. Yet you continue to post in a discussion forum. Something wrong with this picture to anyone else? The fact is this IS a discussion, not a one-sided argument. If you have an opinion, share it, and thanks. But don't try to state it as fact and then attempt to brush everyone else aside as if anyone else's opinion is automatically invalid and holds no relevance. There have been several comments that I haven't wholeheartedly agreed on, and I have respectfully posted my response in each case. Is it too much to ask that you do the same? I somehow feel that this question has already been answered by your previous actions here, but I'm not giving up on anyone. I think everyone has a role to play, even if it may not be as I had envisioned it. Also in response to time investment, if you were actually here to actively partake in the conversation you probably would have noticed that this has already come up here. It appears that the community is largely divided by nothing more than terminology. Some will argue that hardcore means time vested, others argue that it is skill. Personally I would have called it skill I guess, but now that it's becoming apparent many others measure time vested instead I can respect that. Mainly because the universe doesn't revolve around me, and I asked for constructive feedback.

This, 100% this. As a matter of fact this is what the thread originated as, and we did manage to have a healthy discussion around it for a short while at least. You are correct, and I'll take the blame for the flame. Should have just shared the conversation in the OP and let the core of the conversation around raid mechanics and scaling take place instead. I apologize, although it doesn't justify people treating each other poorly over a discussion. It's a conversation that took a wrong turn and pretty much started derailing, what else is new in an mmo forum? Thank you to the good feedback I have received though, if nothing else it has opened my eyes to other things I personally hadn't considered: reasons for community interaction maybe not happening as it should, people not enjoying certain aspects as much as we'd expect they might, and some solid examples on both sides of the scaling argument. Cheers!


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No, by my logic defined terms have a real definition that stands regardless of what individuals wan't to pretend it is.

Atunement can be completed by anyone willing to put in the time (it takes less then a week if you attune full time). Atunement has existed in some form in virtually all MMO's I can recall. Heck even Ragnarok Online had some of it's zones gated behind some really intense time sinks. Hardcore isn't a subjective term. Simple as that. People might like to pretend it means something it doesn't, but a rose by any other name... You might believe raiding doesn't require much skill, and I might remind you that skill isn't a major factor in 'Hardcore'. Activity / time invested is.


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Your Original Post is literally a question on semantics..... And I quote:

Emphasis is from OP... Not only was your OP literally on the semantics of the term 'hardcore', you yourself highlighted it....


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