122804-stop-wasting-effort-on-new-content-that-does-not-allow-progression-page-6

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Except that you are applying a different principle. You're saying people who PVP shouldn't have so far to go, but you definitely said that people who did exceptionally hard work in raiding shouldn't get that same treatment. That their gear, no matter WHAT, shouldn't be used for PVP BiS builds. And you're then applying that to say that people who solo should have a progression path to DS. That's far and away not the same thing, nowhere near each other in how they tune, function, and play. I do things solo I would NEVER do in a group. Solo play, and even small group play, have as much in common with PVP as they do raiding. Stand in heals, don't stand in telegraphs, complete objectives. That's what I've been trying to explain to you, and that the OP grasps, and that you still don't. Raiding and soloing, even raiding and small group play, are nowhere near the same thing. That's why we're now discussing ways to make an experience tuned entirely solo for its own progression, not running it alongside the raids. You shouldn't be able to solo for raid gear because you get raid gear from raiding. You shouldn't be able to do anything for PVP gear except for PVP. That's how this works. You're about to enter a world where PVP gear might be better equalized, buy you sure as Hell made sure you raised up above the raiders, no matter how much work they put in. And you did that for a reason. This isn't a gear-gap issue because you can PUG a small group, even right up to a UPG or Vet SSM. That should be a big, glaring red flag that they're not the same because PUGs have formed for raids and not gotten far, even with several GA geared people. People who do a dungeon aren't doing a five man version of a raid and thus need scaled up. That's actually why I was trying to think of things a Warplot could be that would put it on a raid's level. A raid is an entirely different animal in Wildstar. You think all PVE is the same, but it's not. Omnicore doesn't net me raiding gear and shouldn't. Same principle, it's an entirely different batch of content, an entirely different experience. I don't run Omnicore the way I run SoTR. And why on Earth are you talking about accessibility? To run the raids, you need to run the dungeons, adventures, and world bosses. You should be running at least the dungeons and adventures anyway. Then, you get to GA, raid GA until you get decent enough gear (and clear Ohmna), deliver your patterns, get into DS. That isn't a lot of work. I'm not even trying and I'm halfway through attunement on Seeger. That's somebody putting zero effort into attuning, just running what other people want to run. There are guilds right now raiding casually on four hours a week. Most do eight. Is that inaccessible? By what standard do you judge inaccessibility? There's a huge difference between people who aren't raiding because they literally can't, and people who want the raid gear but don't want to raid. You fit in the latter camp; you obviously have all the time you'd need to do that. It's not the everest of gaming, getting 20 people together twice a week. If you can do that, there is absolutely nothing above anyone's head. Attunement is easily accomplished for anyone with four scheduled five man groups, world bosses might take two days if you can't get one to stand up, it's not that critical. Raiding isn't inacessible by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone with time enough to play this game more than eight hours a week can raid. There are a lot of people that don't actually want to raid, but again, what do they need raiding gear for? Because it's there and shiny and you want it? Set some time aside and raid. But that's obviously not what this is about. I believe Jix when he says he wants a solo progression experience because he is willing to take it on its own, never getting true DS-equivalent trinity gear. I don't believe anyone that actually wants DS level trinity gear from not raiding are actually really bummed about the lack of solo content, I believe they're trying to bypass actually raiding to get raid gear. There's a big difference between "needing accessibility" and "taking a shortcut that has nothing to do with the content you're getting gear for." Seriously, if you want raid-style gear, raid for it. It's completely ineffectual as an argument to say, "I want to do my dailies faster, so I should be able to get GA gear without raiding." How does that NOT sound like someone running up their ranking and getting gear in PVP without ever doing PVP? If someone in PVP gets BIS and melts you, that's just PVP. If it's someone in the best raiding gear in the game, that's a travesty? But someone should be able to casually solo or small group their way completely past the entirety of small group progression and the first raid? Or even walk into DS? That's absolutely ridiculous. I in no way, shape, or form deserve that to be made available to me and neither does anyone else who doesn't raid. If people really want to run up soloing progression gear, let it be gear specifically for soloing and nothing else. That's fine, that's compartmentalized, that doesn't act as an easy-button out of having to actually do the preceding content.

Honestly, man, if you want to raid, go do it. It's really not that bad. Some people here seem to think it's a huge time commitment, but it's really not. No reason not to sign up to raid a three hour raid (they have those, too) twice a week. I'll spend probably four hours online tonight and I'm leaving the office like three hours late. Before you think it's out of reach, seriously look into it. Wildstar's raids are hard, but they aren't necessarily time-intensive. Guilds farming GA are regularly reporting clearing it in 3-4 hours. Take a stab at it before it seems like too much. Not saying it wouldn't be fun to have an equally hard solo wing with its own compartmentalized progression, but raiding isn't literally out of anyone's scope that I've met.


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you know that old saying, It is better to have people think you a fool then to say something and remove all doubt...... If you don't have a reasoned, well thought out response to the OPs opinions and you can't defend your opinions with reason, logic and evidence perhaps its better not to say anything


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I suppose we could tell you that you're wrong until we're blue in the face but you'd choose to ignore it. Every successful mmo that I have played (WoW, FF14, GW2, SWTOR, RIFT) focuses predominantly on multiplayer content and getting the other players involved in it. (in fact one of SWTOR's main criticisms at the start is that it felt too much like a single player game, they promptly changed that) As newsWatch9 kindly pointed out, there are games that handle single player content far better and people that want a single player experience are playing those games. When you create a game of a certain genre, you have to play to that genre's strengths; the strength of an mmo is that it is massively multiplayer. Aside from that, other genres can do anything an mmo can do better because they're not limited to the engine/netcode of an mmo. To think that there's a huge market for people that want to play exclusively singleplayer in an mmo is idiotic.


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Hummm i think you quoted the wrong person. on the same thought line of this thread, rated 1v1 PVP might be a nice change of pace.

just like every other game development that has ever happens.


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^this


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well the bots would be representative of the classes in this game. they would use class abilities and it would prep you for pvp. i see how it is technically "pve" but it would be for the progression of pvp since 1v1 pvp would still require you find another person. also its apparently hard to balance 2v2 so id think it would be worse for 1v1. but you could do it much easier with bots because they can change the abilities around a bit. i definitely this idea requires a bit more attention. it definitely isnt a troll post and has just as much merit as making a pure pve solo-able content.


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well the problem with that is its not difficult. you need to have an equivalent level of difficulty to attune gear similar to raid gear. what you just suggested would only require time. you would have to add some other element.


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The answer to that question is: 'very difficult'. DS scales up personal accountability another notch. In GA you can afford to lose many people during fights. Coming in from GA with full GA gear you can hardly afford to lose a single person on any of the boss fights in DS 20. The strategies involved for each fight, specific group compositions with specific LAS setups, and timings are critical in the DS 20 fights. With all things, the more BiS gear your raid has the more forgiving the content is, but with the layers of staying out of red, while actively doing X mechanic under Y conditions every Z phases for each fight you have a lot more on your plate. Tanks take a beating in DS, healers run out of focus all the time because you are spaming heals and hoping that the DPS doesn't do something stupid, like share a purge or weed-whack the raid. Once you have a full team that understands each fight and can perform that makes any PvE encounter in any game simple, but I would try to find a different word than easy, after all execution is still 90% of the game.


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No, it doesn't. Before you had 39 other people that had to be on the ball. Now you have only 19 other people having to be on the ball. Less variables makes fights easier. Every time you cut the amount of variables in a fight, you cut the difficulty of that fight, 40>20>10>5>1. It's simple math Yasfan, the only way this works out they way you think it does, is if the raid boss stays as it did during the 40 man version while only allowing 20 people to fight. Then, this convoluted logic you tend to banter about on the forums would have some merit.


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Do you actually read the stuff you post?


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