126984-the-guild-restriction-for-f2p-needs-to-go

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They're not being kept out of guilds, so they're not being socially barred. Instead I look at the restriction as a way to keep every character and their alt from making a guild whenever. I'd rather have a slow trickle of new guilds than a huge wave of em all trying to gobble up new players. That splits the playerbase badly and leads to guilds that crumple and die. Besides, Like many have said in this thread: They can still JOIN a guild no problem, still get all the benefits of said guild, and still have fun. They just need to wait a bit before they make their own (and who knows, maybe they'll decide to stay with their current one.)


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This is simply not correct. You obviously have not understood what the restriction is about. There are no limits on socializing whatsoever related to this restriction. The restriction you are suggesting as better is even more restrictive on limiting access to actual content, and would in terms have a significant limiting factor in socializing, Well done.


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Since you're a friend that will be playing with them, presumably you can simply create a guild for them. I really don't understand what is so onerous and difficult about that. And as has been said many times, until we see the Loyalty program and learn how much it will take to get eased social restrictions, this argument is largely pointless. There's an inflated sense of how restrictive this will be, and an inflated sense of how important creating a guild is for free players. One of those will be cured by more information that's bound to come soon. Then we can come closer to having a reasonable conversation.


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Who said I was going be usin F2P?

Where did I say that?

this change doesn't affect me, I never plan on not having signature service. I will still keep paying for the game.

I've even made posts saying how much I would be willing to throw money at Carbine.

This change doesn't affect me at all.

But Even if it doesn't affect me, this restriction isn't fair.

This isn't a good choice.

What in the bloody hell are you talking about?

Guild interactions ARE basic parts of the game.

This thread isn't about me, it has nothing to do with me.

This change doesn't affect me, it doesn't change my game experience this wont ever affect me.

This thread has NOTHING to do with me and my place in the game, but I do care about people other than myself, and F2Pers need to have access to such a basic feature as a running a guild.


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So is the expectation of not seeing a game system abused whenever the developers can help it. We have strong evidence that with free accounts, guild creation and invitation would get abused. You're right this issue is about ethics, but you see it backwards. It would be unethical for them to allow an obvious and large loophole for abuse to be part of this transition. When weighing the balance between free players and paying players, paying players need to win, without question. Giving free players access to 50% of the benefits and abilities of being in a guild is more than generous when faced with the potential for abuse.


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Oh you mean the really bad one that no one took seriously because it was really bad (not to mention would probably take longer than it would to earn Loyalty or get Credd)? Restricting it to level 50 is just going to encourage power leveling stupidity.


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You are not supposed to win in Internet forum discussions.


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Not every single player is cut out to make guild decisions. I'd say being in a guild is a basic feature, but I won't agree that creating and running a guild is a basic feature. The people that have to be in charge of at least maintaining a guild need to have leadership qualities that not every player has.


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Here is every single reason that you've tried to make as your 'support' for your arguments.

Saying "You're wrong." or "Cus it's bad." is not supporting an argument. Stop being dramatic. People have been extremely reasonable in this thread in terms of attempting to discuss it. You are choosing to instead make posts such as this:


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I do not see that I need to convince you of anything. Discussions like these can be very subjective and can draw a lot on feelings rather than reason and facts, e.g. it can be difficult to make this objective towards you, since you clearly have great feelings surrounding your own opinion that you started this thread out with. Me starting to convince you, will only provide you with a basis to trying to turn it around. You are the one that came up with an opinion that you shared with others, and you are arguing for change. It is your job - which you put yourself into - to convince the rest of us that your opinion and ideas hold enough. This is the way it has been for hundreds of years. What I can do, is tell you the basis for having to make these decisions With the introduction of Free to Play, Carbine is in its essence introducing a 2 tier system and needs to find a balance for what free riders gets and what paying customer gets Within the 2 tier system, you need to make a decision on how narrow you are going to make the restrictions and on what principles the restrictions should apply. Obviously, Carbine and NCSoft have chosen one of the most nonrestrictive approaches on their model. You need to take into account abuse once you open the gates for inflow of people that does not care about the game but has other objectives They need to make a balance for the continuous differentiator with CREED still being available and a very viable option Commitment in an MMO is a very big factor. If you a ready to create, build and manage a guild, you should be so committed and gain so much entertainment value out of the product that you should be willing to pay the company for providing you with this. There are so many options for removing the restrictions which does not involve having to pay real money, CREED, Loyalty. The restriction on not being able to create a guild or invite into a guild is not obstructive for a free to play engagement, you still have full access to established guilds and participating in every corner of content the game has to offer. Let me emphasize. I am not trying to convince you with this. I am telling you. This is basically to explain why your points and arguments for making this stand out as an issue or non-fair approach from Carbine is being stupid at best, and why it is very evident that you are running on feelings alone, and maybe the fact that you don't want to understand why we will not agree with your opinion on the matter. Take it or leave it.


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The Guild Leader has to set the permissions for people to have the ability to invite people to the guild, plus other various things, they aren't automatically set. That doesn't seem "basic feature" to me. People not having leadership qualities is why it's not a basic feature to me. Why are you asking me to do something that you yourself have been unwilling to do? Why aren't you trying to convince me it is a basic feature?


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Actually, I'd like to just note a point of correction here because there's a common meme on the forums that equates "signature account" with "paying player" and "free account" with "non-paying player". And in some threads, like this one, "non-paying player" with "3rd-party RMTer". That's simply incorrect, and pretty unfair to a lot of people who are going to be coming to this game soon. Free accounts are not the same thing as free players. Players without signature accounts can support the game through ala-carte purchases in the cash shop and many of them do in comparable hybrid programs in other MMORPGs. In fact, many of them spend considerably more per month that way than a monthly subscription. Recognizing and allowing that kind of support to count in their loyalty program is an aspect of Carbine's plan that they are wise to include. But even free players--people who show up and play but don't ever spend a dime or purchase CREDD--aren't the same thing as people who are looking to cheat or exploit the game for their own real-world profit, even if the cheaters/exploiters would love to be able to do what they do for free. Free players don't cover their costs, but they do show up and fill queues and run content and play the game alongside paying players. There is value to that, as anyone who has been around for the last 6 months should be able to understand clearly. The restriction will make life better for fair players whether they are paying players or not. It will fall more heavily on fair players who are playing for free, but it is nevertheless a very minor restriction that only affects those who want to run guilds themselves, and only persists if they never choose to even use the CREDD exchange once they've hit a level where they can build up plat enough to buy CREDD. Is it perfect? Nah. But it's not exactly a human rights issue either, and this really wouldn't deter me from playing at all if I hadn't bought the game yet.


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What many people haven't brought up, or remembered, is that there is a level restriction in Wildstar for creating a guild already. You have to be level 12 (reaching the capital city) and pay 10g to do such. Sure, it doesn't take long to get there for some, but there is already a level requirement.


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