124689-wildstar-has-been-p2w-since-launch-yet-the-sky-has-not-fallen-page-2

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...  that's... exactly what it is. Pay To Win = Player pays, gets best shit (AKA wins).


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If you want to brainstorm for different non-intrusive cash shop models, then make a thread about that specifically, and not expect it to happen in a thread you made about W* being "P2W"


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I guess what we forumgoers have to remember is that APPARENTLY ONE PAIR OF BOE PISTOLS AND IN-SINCE-CLOSED-BETA ABILITY POINTS INVALIDATE ANY CLAIM THAT THE GAME ISN'T P2W. edit: sarcasm ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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Fixed it for you.

Ah but you see, you don't know  that all the top raiders didn't just buy their way to the top with CREDD.


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FFXIV, and back when I used to play it, WoW (not saying it's p2w now, I just haven't played it and can't say).

I'll say it again and again, most MMOs do not have a system where $ == gold. This fundamentally changes what gold as a concept means in the game. With something like FFXIV, there's is no worry that the game is trying to nickel and dime you for your gold. Once gold == $ any gold skippable grind will be skipped by whales, among others. This also means that the devs have a conflict of interest between adding not-fun grinds to the game in order to make more money and simply trying to make the game as fun as possible.

I ... dude, come on... how can you even say something like that with a straight face... Everyone should go read this article on EVE as it went through the very same debate.


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Well, my point is that people will say cash shops are P2W for that reason but not extend that label to buying CREDD. I think beattlebilly was just pointing out that many people don't like the idea of cash shops and will readily try to slap a P2W label on them. My personal stance on cash shops is that, in a hybrid/F2P/B2P game, whatever is in them should be available to subscribers through basis of subscription or through game-play, without having to pay any additional money (other than things like character slots, name changes and other account services, that is), and in a purely P2P game, there shouldn't be a cash shop at all (especially if there are things that are only available in the cash shop). That's as much an anti-"subbers having to pay more money" argument as it is an anti-P2W argument. :) I don't think CREDD is P2W, myself, but I don't think a cash shop offering things that are available in-game for cash is either. For some, P2W means "spending money (beyond the sub) gives an advantage over those who don't". I don't really have a problem with that as long as what someone pays for is available in-game as well (well, with some caveats, of course - for example, top tier raiding/PVP gear shouldn't be in a cash shop, but IMHO it shouldn't be available on the AH either). That may be P2W to some, but I just think people should be consistent with how they apply the label.


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I did not miss his point entirely, I was explaining why I think people would call what MadBlue put in his post that I quoted about rare crafting mats in a cash shop that are also available in game as "P2W". Guess I should have highlighted his example of crafting mats, but since he gave an example that went beyond the OP, I didn't think it was necessary.


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The thing is, someone IS grinding out the runes, amps, abilities, PPP and TEG. Otherwise they wouldn't be there to buy. Someone is putting in the time you don't want to. The only thing CREDD buys is time... someone sells their time they spent farming items, someone else buys time they don't want to spend farming those items.


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Just wanted to point out, earlier in this thread I outlined that I myself have spent upwards of $2000 on those boxes since they were released and I had a friend who spent more than $7000 just in one month on ONE SET of those boxes since they get changed and updated every so often. People get sucked into it very easily, myself included sometimes.


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Really? Are we going to keep doing this for 40-50 pages? If you can buy it with gold but there is no legit way to turn cash into gold, that does not make the game P2W. If buying it with cash is against ToS but people cheat and risk being banned, that does not make the game P2W.


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