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Have to agree with that. Also, about win-traders...If you already have the gear, shouldn't you be able to still win against a booster? Being more skilled...


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Agree with PlasmaJohn 100%. Part of managing and operating an MMO is about policing the systems and Carbine at best were incompetent at worst showed total disdain for their player base and have seen a lot of the consequences of that. Players, especially hardcore cupcakes in general like to cheat and work out better ways to do things, it is up to the operator of the MMO to limit this, put systems in place and appropriately punish players. But in general Wildstar has followed a method for reward pvp gear that has been removed by other games with PVP progression, several years ago. Again it is like they decided not to look at what other MMOs did to fix things, because they were determined they knew best.


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That's sort of the point, though, John. PVP players don't have a different driver than PVE players, they just rarely get to keep them because of things like this. The reason things like Warplots and buying PVP gear are even things is because, yes, even PVP players like to earn new stuff they can use that gives them an edge. The quest for bigger numbers is not solely the province of raiders; ask anyone playing EVE Online if they'd rather that their weapon skills they learn make only a minimum amount of difference in actual combat. However, certain PVP players in more rigid scenarios like arenas and tournaments will always find whatever non-combat mechanics they can use to get ahead, games will be exploited, it's the way of PVP. It's why you get headshot scripters in even the most famous and popular FPS games, why people will learn mechanics that will forcibly lag other players in WoW, and why even if they fix win-trading and ratings tanking as we know them, somebody's going to figure out a way to try to game the game. In essence, PVP players are suffering because a lot of people are in their side of the game, exploiting their systems, doing everything they can to gain the rewards without actually playing against other players. It's not actual PVP lovers avoiding the game. However, if those rewards were completely meaningless, people wouldn't be angry about people artificially raising their ratings. If you're good enough to get to 1800 naturally like Eclips, and it doesn't matter what else is going on as long as you get to fight someone, then it doesn't matter. The core argument is that you have a lot of people rising to the top, earning the same rewards, that don't deserve them. Most of the people complaining about things like win-trading aren't sitting at 500 getting smacked down by ratings tankers every round, most I hear speaking are people with high arena ratings who find their peers unworthy. They feel like their 1800 rewards are meaningless, as it were, because everyone is getting carried to them. And I feel sorry for them in a way, because there's very little Carbine can do that isn't going to take away their gains. Their stats will have to dwindle and the gear gap will shrink. Their ratings will have to change so that a single loss suddenly hurts a lot more. These things are all on the docket because PVPers always seem to have to deal with non-PVPers trying to figure out how to get their rewards without putting in their work. It's not because they wouldn't LIKE to have a long, meaningful gear progression ladder or some leniency when they have a bad round. It's because there's very little other way to contain the cheating. So hopefully Carbine have the least painful answer for the actual PVPers, but that's all anyone can really hope for. Hopefully, they can retain some kind of progression in whatever system they come up with. But it's sad they can't have it. I certainly, coming from my background, wouldn't dare say PVP players don't care about personal progress. It's just that they don't often get the means to personal progress, and having them they don't get to keep them. It doesn't matter whether win-trading involves a five-team pinwheel of a five man and four 2 man arena teams, it will still always be an issue. The gear gap will only not be used for ratings tanking until the rating directly determines the stat parametrically or when the gear gap is completely gone and PVP gear is next to worthless. Until there comes some fullproof way of solving it outside of completely turning a game into a standalone PVP sandbox, PVP MMORPG gamers have to deal with this crap. It's not fun to have your epic PVP gear stats taken away from you when you walk into the open world and that feeling you get of having "stepped up" into a bigger league of gear taken away, it's just something PVP players have to swallow since they're all judged against each other so directly and there are a lot of people who aren't good at PVP who just want the shiny rewards at the end. Unfortunately, in the PVP wings of MMORPGs, the common hurdle players just have to get by for those rewards are each other. While exploits in PVE raiding have been mixed in reception, the reason it only occasionally becomes a huge issue is that the bosses being exploited aren't other players. Cheaters aren't gaming the system, they're directly gaming each other, and PVP suffers a lot for it.


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