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I would call that a step in the right direction. I'm always a fan of steps in the right direction. Whether it's enough of a step to bring people who aren't hardcore and aren't willing to be carried to complete attunement, I don't know. But I certainly don't think it could hurt to implement it. Do you?

So... they made attunement easier because they wanted to "ease the transition from group content to raids" that "unlocks" them. From that, I infer that attunement is intended to be "a transition from group content to raids" that won't let you in until you've completed that transition.. Wouldn't that be--I dunno... like... getting you ready to go raid? How do you go from what they said to "Attunement isn't about making sure you're ready to raid"? Hey, you know that link you wanted me to provide? I think you did it for me! Thanks!

I believe my point was that the total amount of liquidity is not as relevant as where the liquidity that is present is located. Reading comprehension FTW.

Actually, my advice did not include ANY Veteran Adventures, just FYI. As far as I can tell, there's absolutely NOTHING you need to _learn_ in Veteran Adventures to be ready for a raid. Another FYI: you do not need BiS gear to do any part of this game except possibly the 40-man raid that will be gone in a matter of weeks, so an inability to craft pre-GA BiS gear for all classes is completely irrelevant. As for having to run multiple Adventures for gear, if someone needs to do that to be competent for dungeons, then they should do as many as they need to to get enough gear to move forward. That's not the same as saying everyone must do all of them, which is what the game currently does. If you go in and get your ass kicked, you go back out and get stronger and repeat. Maybe if that happens the game ought to suggest that you try finding better equipment in Veteran Adventures so that you know where to go to get stronger. But if you go in and don't get your ass kicked, then you don't need Vet Adventures. You're strong enough already without them and shouldn't HAVE to do them. See how that works? I try something and decide for myself if I'm ready based on my actual performance! Crazy, I know. At what point did game developers decide that "If it's too hard, back up and get stronger" ought to be replaced with "You may not even find out if it's too hard until you get stronger by getting this one exact piece of gear that only can be obtained in this one place! So I'll just require you to go to that place FIRST!" At what point did the top tier of players in MMORPGs decide that it was not just acceptable for the game to do that, but actually preferable to simply providing voluntary methods to allow you to pick and choose your teammates if you decide that's what you want to do? :(

Yeah, I'm sure they planned to remove ordering from Adventures all along and just forgot to mention it when they rolled out the other stuff. :rolleyes: As my comment about the developers relying too much on advice from hardcore raiders, if the best evidence to the contrary that you can point to is "they nerfed attunement because the game was hemorrhaging subs, even though the hardcore raiders screamed in protest" then I'm feeling pretty good about my comment. The only thing your counter-example proves is that the developers realized that they like being employed even more than they like hardcore raiders.

The fact that some people still insist that the earth is flat should not be taken as evidence the earth is a plane. Similarly, your inability to see a problem with ordering is not evidence that there is in fact no problem. An alternative explanation is that the problem was explained to you in some detail and you prefer to ignore it.


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A couple things here: We're making the assumption that raid attunement is aimed at someone who is fresh to 50. Those people are not walking into raiding regardless. At the very least, raid attunement is going to make them either take the time to get ready for raids (or, as yasfan commented, have someone with them who can independently judge their progress). At the best, they'll have seen all the mechanics of vet adventures, dungeons, and world bosses (for what the latter are worth). Removing attunement means fresh 50s can immediately raid, which doesn't necessarily raise the number of raiders who can actually help with the raiding situation. I think there are points this becomes a conversation, but they're related to whether we really need elements of attunement or, if we do need them for something, if they can be made to actually serve their purpose. I think there's less conversation about vet adventures and dungeons for that reason. The reputation stage is probably the least useful, as the argument for keeping it seems to be that it's so easy that it should be done before you get there. It probably wouldn't be a problem if PVP players raised rep as they leveled (or if PVP players were still leveling via PVP). It only seems to be a completion check to make sure you've played "enough" Wildstar. I'll also throw the attunement for Datascape in there under the same header. Those don't seem to be as controversial as being pointless time sinks, they're just often argued to not be very hard time sinks. It seems to be world bosses, in particular, that seem the most controversial. This is based around a paradox in the above ideas. World bosses are, ostensibly, meant to serve a purpose. They're meant to be a first crack at a 20-man raid doing content. However, there are several issues in the way that make them not serve that actual purpose. The issues with the world boss stage are: 1.  Because the world bosses are scaled to the zone they're in, some can be done with just a few people at the level 50 stage where these are being done. This means it actually isn't teaching the 50s attuning to work in a raid. 2.  Because world bosses are not always up, you need to put together a team to do them without knowing they are up. This makes them something of a logistical issue for guilds trying to make attunement part of the process. 3.  Because world bosses award gear at their level, they are not worth doing for any other reason. This is opposed to vet adventures and vet dungeons, which award gear you can actually use. This means that world bosses serve no other purpose. Earlier, it was brought up that this particular stage should be removed in the interest of brevity, which I don't like as an idea, but which I can completely understand for the above reasons. It might be worth doing temporarily. I brought up that they should include summonable veteran versions of the world bosses for level 50s that give you worthwhile gear as a longer term solution, because this makes the step actually fulfill its purpose (and gives people who don't want to really raid a bunch of "raid bosses" to do. I think it's better to aim at specifics in this conversation.  I think people do see the value in attunement.  I think we all also agree that there are portions of it that can be made a lot more useful as a tool for bringing people up to raid speed, if not entirely eliminated. Honestly, I think that it would actually make raiding a lot MORE easy to get into if we instead removed raid lockouts and simply loot-locked raiders, allowing them to only get loot from a boss once and then gives a sizeable chunk of money afterwards.  Then, people could raid with more than one team, so we wouldn't be dealing with raid exclusivity. That's more of the root of the problem.


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Maybe the red will help you out.


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