122804-stop-wasting-effort-on-new-content-that-does-not-allow-progression-page-2

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I don't know what group you were watching, but I suggest watching a group of raiders learning a boss vs. a group that has it on farm. These are very different animals. The learning group cannot afford anyone AFK or dead while the farm group has a buffer...particularly if you are geared past that stage of raiding anyway.


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Does anyone else see the problem with these two concepts? I completely agree that raiding should not be the only "Top End"  content. Why is it so difficult to create solo or small group content that provides a challenge that's considered 'Top End'? MMOs need to break out of the formula of Quest -> 5-man ->raid. It's old. It's tired. It's clearly not allowing for more advanced or superior content design.


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Same thing that happened at launch... the whole "Gold or GTFO" attitude, quitting on the first death, lack of pugs, and a whole lot of "You aren't good enough" for anyone you don't know or who isn't wearing the tag of a well known guild.


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One of the fallacies I see with this argument is the idea that players want "the same gear"  as what comes out of raids. It's not about gear, it's about progressing through difficult content. Solo/small group content is always looked upon as lesser than raiding. And mostly that's because it's designed to be weaker. But what if it wasn't? What if solo or small group content could provide content that was, pound for pound, just as difficulty as raiding? The current progress model is far too linear. Quests -> Ship Hands -> Adventures -> Dungeons -> Raids. Everything funnels you more and more towards larger and larger group content the further you go into 'end game'. What if this wasn't the case? We've seen games such as Diablo work well with a system that rewards solo and group content and progression fairly equally. It's not a perfect comparison, but it DOES illustrate that it's possible to create progression which scales fairly equally no matter what group size you prefer. It SHOULD be possible to design solo or small-group content that provides just as much difficulty and progression as large group raiding. You should be able to bring however many people that you want or have available. If you are a solo god, you should be able to turn up the difficulty on a mission or encounter to the point where it is delivering a difficulty that, on a person for person basis, is just as challenging for a larger group. And the rewards should scale with that as well. In a game like WIldstar, where personal player ability plays such a large role, there is an amazing opportunity and capacity for rewards to be given out because someone outplayed the content. Why should it matter if the gear was obtained in a raid or not, as long as the content provided difficulty on the same level? Either way a person or people playing exceedingly well should be rewarded. All that needs to happen is for the difficulty of the solo/small group content is set at a point where even people in raids will look at it and be impressed. It should be a situation where when someone asks you how you got that purple or orange piece of gear, and you tell them you solo'd XYZ...they reply with "Holy crap!  That fight is CRAZY!" I repeat:  The idea that the best gear can ONLY come from a raid, and that ONLY raids can provide the most challenge, is an outdated concept.


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this type of thinking will be the end of MMOs. The if you dont like the current way it is "Play a different game"  MMOs like every other genre must evolve or die. this is just the exploration of how they can evolve


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why would removing gear make anything challenging. and as a light armor player my self there is more skill involved in movement based tactics. Shiphands are a good start my SS can do a shiphand. I don't feel the need for a tank, or that I need a dedicated healer. so lets call Shiphands step one. where are the other 4-5 steps in difficulty. its not about turning MMOs into a console game. its about turning MMOs into a genre that can include a wide breathe of play styles and people. some people [like me] love the many wonderful aspects of an MMO the open world design, the community, the economy, the housing, so on and so on. but that does not mean that we cant ask for a different avenue of progression to coincide with more traditional aspects of the game.


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Key words "APPROPRIATE TO THE CHALLENGE" we just need the solo challenge to justify the progression of gear. its really not as difficult people are making it out to be. at a point in MMOs world bosses where nothing more than hyped up mobs with more HP. that changed raids where invented. raids at one point where based on how fast you can kill some the mob, but that changed and other more difficult content was created. raids have evolved over time, and now its time for solo content to evolve the same way.


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