119901-love-for-the-game

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Again, we've had this discussion. F2P is horrible for players and developers, and not only that but it's probably not even the best choice for the publisher. If you're interested in reading about FAR better ideas, you could read responses in about twenty different threads on the subject. The bottom line is that F2P has little chance of saving this game. What it would become would be wholly different in design, intent, and incentive. If for some reason it is true that what is really holding the game back is 15$ a month (and the large boost in sales after the lowering of the box price would be indicative that it's actually the initial investment that keeps people from trying the game, not the subscription) then there are quite a few better options than F2P.

I wrote this one in September to address the idea of a cash shop (F2P calls were a lot louder pre-Drop 3) and other non-game-altering ways for NCSoft to increase revenue. And this was a pretty good summary of ideas I brought up during that. Figured I'd maybe save you a trip back 2-3 months to comb through that zoo. In short, there are a lot better ways of generating additional revenue than by setting up an exclusive cash shop, charging for game elements, or going F2P. That seems to be a "default" solution to a fairly complex problem, and it's not a very good one for anyone involved. There are even better ways to do cash shops and there is always the idea of non-instrusive in-game advertising. In fact, there are lots of ways you can, if it's necessary, increase revenue without turning your game into giant Mary Kay party. It's a red herring and, if we're really interested in keeping the game we love in the face of supposed financial hardship (which, since the last box price drop, doesn't seem to be a huge issue), I think we should at least try to advocate ways of generating that revenue that are at least not as detrimental to us players.


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1 & 2 sound like pretty awesome ideas! :) 3 though... as someone who refused to play Diablo III for this very reason, I respectfully disagree. XD


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I'm not really for or against F2P really, if in a few more months WS is still tumbling head over heels into an early grave, sure, but not right now. But when you say "community" it's a few of the small subset of players that actually post here- those most likely to be against F2P anyways. A small skewed data set is hardly something to champion as the wishes of the larger community. Plus, the CS exec that was against it left (forget his name). @RabidRaccoon I like these ideas, although much more is needed. I could live with a cosmetics shop if it were implemented well.


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Ohhh I like that. Excellent idea, it would be a healthy encouragement for those who dislike dailies to do dungeons past gearing, and for those who have expanded playtimes as well.


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Not a problem. Honestly, I think the best thing for Wildstar would be for Carbine to answer player feedback and make the subs worthwhile. A lot of the loss appears to be (at least from my vantage here on the forums) centered around PVP complaints. The PVE stuff is gear related and is being addressed, and I know they're addressing PVP queues, but I think Drop 5 (or at the latest, 6) needs to be building in a way to separate PVP and PVE effects. If nothing else, they need to be put into the instances, so that they balance independently. Sabotage taught us that a great PVP drop can be hampered by having to balance PVP and PVE effect concerns. I also posted a treatise on PVP/PVE server idiosyncrasy a week back that promoted open world content and server differentiation. That might also help the situation. But a way to make sure PVP improvements aren't stepping on the toes of PVE players and vice versa sounds like the best way to recover subs in addition to the many, many good changes coming in Drop 4. At the very least, Carbine needs to announce it's on its way so that the PVP/PVE balance issue can come off the firing line.

Not only that, and I know that not everyone is like this, but I do appreciate sponsors of things I like. If Pizza Hut had a UI app in Wildstar and could take a couple dollars off all our subs, then I would surely use that app to order pizza. Not just because it's there burrowing subconsciously into your brain, but because all things being equal, Pizza Hut can get paid back for their input. Sort of the same if Pepsi put up little unobtrusive billboards with Protostar clones drinking it. I'm a Coca Cola guy myself, but I'd buy more Pepsi simply because they support Wildstar. Or, if Amazon managed to put an app in so that those billboards became interactive and allowed you to access all kind of products (maybe Rowsdower plushies?), I'd use that. If I'm buying it anyway, I'll buy it from the people making the game more accessible without putting in exclusivity gates designed to take more of my money. I should point out that I don't feel as charitable towards obtrusive advertising. If Pepsi plastered a massive banner across my UI, I would feel the negatives outweigh the benefits. But that would be hilarious of that vending machine boss in that shiphand was actually a walking, mean-ass Mountain Dew machine.


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Oh, OK. Since apparently speaking in hypotheticals means that we don't need to have even an ounce of realistic perspective, I think Carbine should use the proceeds of our subscription fees to play the MegaSuperPowerball lottery. Then when they win, they can develop the bestest game ever and send all of us refunds of all our money as a way of saying "thanks!" and let us play forever for free. Yeah, that's the way they should do it.

While it's true that BoPs were intended to be immune from CREDD-based purchasing, the reality is that they're not. Boosters have been selling carries to BoPs in return for plat in this game since Day 1, and the easiest way to earn all the plat that they want is with CREDD.


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You know how it works in obscure places like television and radio? The show stops for 3-5 minutes and displays the ads, then resumes. Are you proposing that for Wildstar? If not, then why do you think advertisers would provide anywhere near enough revenue to support the game if you aren't letting them advertise prominently? As for video games, are you saying that because it works great for MobileBubblePop XII, it'd work here? Are there in fact any AAA PC MMORPGs supporting themselves off of advertising to a degree large enough to offset subscriptions? Because if there are, I'd love to hear which ones.

Ohhhh. OK, I hadn't realized that the "failure of the subscription model" means that there are actually ZERO subscription dollars coming in for your hypothetical. My bad. You're right, if the game has zero subscription revenue then buying lottery tickets to support it wouldn't work. :rolleyes: You may want to go back and change where you said this:

To reflect that what you meant when you said "take a few dollars off our subs" was "remove subs entirely because the subscription revenue stream has completely died". I certainly know that's where I got confused. Alternatively, you could stop moving the target and just admit that maybe Carbine really wouldn't insert ads so that they could take a few bucks off our subs, because then the advertising revenue would be going to US and not THEM. :rolleyes:


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First, if you wanted to maturely participate in the conversation, you should have defined what you think is or is not obtrusive, the way PlasmaJohn did. I can respect his opinion that way. I've stated what I feel to be intrusive and not. If you'd like to add your opinion, you're perfectly allowed and it would meaningfully contribute to the topic at hand. You've not offered a method or example, simply expounded that anything worth showing isn't worth paying for. Which I'd already proven wrong (and which you seem to have split from its context), because Apple pays for product placement on Grimm without stopping the show. And you acknowledged that. Followed by a decent point (which I wish you could articulate better) about setting. Actually, I think that, while Star Wars doesn't have advertising, Wildstar does. In fact, Wildstar has advertising up everywhere, it just isn't really advertising anything, it's a set of props. Protostar is all ABOUT that kind of corporate slagging. I seriously don't think it'd be that out of place. You may not like my points, but when I don't like F2P, I say no, I say why, I give reasons why not, and I even give better examples in worst case scenarios. "No, just no," is not an adult's answer to a question, and it isn't an adult's contribution to a hypothetical discussion. I can only point you to this...

This is someone disagreeing with me like an adult, and one I respect. I may debate the point he raised, but this is how we discuss things like advertising in MMORPGs when we want to have a serious conversation.


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