106973-how-to-make-me-not-want-to-play-wildstar

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This is an MMO not candy crush. Completion takes time; as it rightfully should. It SHOULD take many months of effort to complete trees / item collections / gearing / etc.

I don't think the problem is equating tedious with challenging so much as it is equating challenging ALONE with a sense of accomplishment. You need both challenge and concerted effort for a strong feeling of accomplishment. The perfect balance indeed is hard to capture; but you will feel much more accomplishment from a month of moderately challenging content than from 5 minutes of  ultra-challenging content. Don't believe me? Play 5 minutes of any Touhou game on hard mode; compare it to a 50 minute adventure in W*. Let me know your results :)


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I feel like these are the same people that seem to forget that AQ40 and original Naxx ever existed. Where was my entitlement back then, lol. Most of the "end game content", with the exception of raids, can be completed in about a day or so, leaving meaningless grinding to fill the next rest of the length of your subscription.


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Never said the "go back to WoW" peeps, that wasn't the angle I meant or was focusing on... I meant more the angle of taking the worst possible bits in games, or in this case, Wildstar... and make them sound like the best thing since sliced-bread. Most of those kind of posts remind me more of BS time-share sales pitches -- see quite a bit of it, even without the affixed "go back to WoW'" dismissal. I mean, people have said they couldn't stand some of the mind-blowing tedium-grind in EverQuest (although other bits were interesting, of course), or in the original Vanilla WoW (even though it still had its merits and/or got better)... yet, faced with it AGAIN in Wildstar, along with some/many other games to come and go... and suddenly, it's like it magically was never an issue, and the best thing to happen to gaming, ever. (Even Asian MMOs and f2p games are ragged on ALL THE TIME for the amounts of tedious/mind-numbing "grind".  Or like when I see somebody post on the forums ragging on FFXIV, going on about all its awful grind... yet oddly, while I play both games at the same time -- admittedly there is "textbook-definition" grind to FFXIV, but it's at least enjoyable, interesting, varying, etc... where as here, it's just straight-out repetitive and mind-numbing "grind".)  Kind of like the gamer that hops from one MMORPG to the next, claiming "it's the best thing since EverQuest" or "the best thing since Vanilla WoW" or whatever... then when the next best thing after that comes out, they hop to it, claim the same thing, and pretty much pretend they never did it in the last big/flash-in-the-pan MMO. Majority of most gamers in articles, game sites, etc... have voiced they don't like it... hence why it took on the name "grind"... yet magically people show up in droves to preach the mantra of "grind" and how magically beautiful it is. And to extend back to the post you quoted, my point was... what better way to sell a product, than to take its weaknesses and cons and attempt to spin them into strengths and pros. It'd be like there hypothetically being an error where you can't log into the game past character-select, and someone comes along and says, "you call that a problem/glitch, but I think it's just awesome to sit here for hours admiring the beauty of our custom-made characters while not being able to play whatsoever". (Oddly, as I typed this, the Tom Hanks movie "Money Pit" came to mind, LOL!) (Even though yes, the original post in question, did have the annoying and underlying, "go back to WoW" message/theme to it...) [As a disclaimer to what I said about FFXIV... yeah, I realize that's my own subjective opinion, but even just on paper, comparing it... in FFXIV, there's at least the 8 -- soon to be 9 -- classes, 9 -- soon to be 10 -- jobs, 8 craft-professions, and 3 gathering-professions that one can swap between, on the fly, at any time (once a single class is at least lvl10), all on the same character... that alone leaves worlds of possibilities... get bored with one class/job/profession, swap to another one, take a different approach, and try something new. Then the option of making an alt (again with all stated class/job/profession options) and trying completely and totally different approaches, gameplay styles, progression, etc. Where here, in W*... as has been pointed out, dailies... same thing, over, and over... like a really bad re-run. And yes, from what I've read and heard, the end-game of FFXIV has its own share of daily-repeat grinding... haven't gotten that far in ARR yet, so guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it... but at least as far as baseline options go, still seems like worlds more selections/paths that can be explored.]


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I honestly couldn't figure out what WoW's actual planned-direction was when it came to Cata to be honest... probably why I stuck around to just before Mists launched, did a short "free trial/beta" of Mists that Blizz gave me access too, and hung it up after that. Game was still good, interesting content and all that... but in one aspect, yeah, they went back to HC mentality, but in another aspect they were n00b-tube streamlining the game (or perhaps they were making it "Facebook friendly"?). Like the flipcharts for talent-trees... I've heard their reasoning, that it makes it much more "efficient" and the old system was supposedly clunky and an issue -- what's odd though, is the old system allowed for a lot more exactly-detailed fine-tuning... almost like a CMOS/registry for your character. Used to be ways of boosting HP on yourself or pets, adding damage, etc with talent-trees... can do some bits with the flip-charts, but nowhere near as fine-tuned. Also used to like maxing out a certain talent spec, and using the extra points to "boost" a bit more into another spec. Or like the option to change a pet's class right on the fly for hunters. Kind of killed most the old-school "hardcore" pet-camping so many did in the past... sure, certain pets still had specific unique attacks, but kind of devalued many certain "types" of pets in a way. Not to mention when they made all classes have one weapon-slot and made the weapon selection per class rather limited... I honestly kind of liked being able to upgrade on my hunter with say a better dagger I've found over the polearm I had equipped, etc. So yeah, even though I agree Cata was going back to HC, I'm still not sure what the heck else Blizz was thinking. --- As for the comments about HC being exlusive only... rofl (--though, I could maybe agree for games that want to be 100% HARDCORE ONLY with near zero casual content [typically avoid such titles; I don't mind HC, but want a bit of happy-balance to keep it lively and allow for a "cool-down and/or relax-period" when not being all Super-HC]). Can't say practical business has ever thrived saying, "we're going to spend millions making a product, only to market it for a few hundred thousand to maybe a million income". No business or product ever prospers by aiming small, or marketing to a very tiny demographic... the point that was being made about games catering to more users simply means that the more people that pay to play, the more overall revenue, and the more funding/resources the devs have to readily make newer content, fix/patch current issues, and keep funding staff while keeping the lights on, etc.  (There's never been any practical business-philosophies that would ever predicate "working at a loss".)


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Looks like someone never stepped foot in AQ40/Naxx40 when they were the 'current' content. There was a reason the % of people that cleared Naxx40 was something absurd like .005% of people that were raiding.


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More like we've played games that were actually hard. Try high end raiding in EQ where you had to coordinate heal chains down to the second. If one healer was even a little off, full wipe. I'll also say that this kind of gameplay blew chunks and is why I refuse to ever go back to EQ1. A hard game is all fine and good. EQ1 was a second and third job rolled into one.


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^ Temper tantrum. Yeah I'm sure devs will totally take you seriously.


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What do you think the attraction is? I can tell you my personal reasons for feeling that way: I like to do group content but I'm highly allergic to PUGs. That means I either need to run in lockstep with whatever levelling group I can find or I'm soloing. At level cap we're all on the same content and in many games larger (8+) group content opens up. Wildstar's levelling content is nothing special. I love a good story (SW:TOR) but Wildstar's falls quite flat. I mostly blame the twitterfied storytelling. It's not a journey, it's a deathmarch.


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Clearly you don't play a medic. That post took me about 10 minutes, even if it had taken me 20-30 you're not even approaching how long it takes for the lower ranked DPS to get there (and yes the difference in DPS between classes is enough to rank them, but I'm not getting into that)

Lol, yeah. It's like we shouldn't be asking the Devs, gods that they are, to make sure the game that they made is fun. I mean, after all, it's not like they want people to keep playing it and funding their studio, am I right?


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Matter of perspective. Strictly speaking everything they are doing at 50 is part of 'endgame'. Endgame =/= raids alone. Vet adventures, dungeons, eventually vet shiphands, PvP, housing, exploration / path capping, lore collection, RP, social activities, expert crafting, etc etc etc.... they are all 'Endgame'. I agree on the notion that folks enjoying non-raid content tend to be pretty happy; but I don't agree that folks 'not doing endgame' are happy at 50, because what they are doing is indeed engame, just not hardcore raiding.


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