110069-development-update

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Thanks Don! For those wondering why they aren't rolling out "fixed" issues, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that even if they're working now, the amount of stuff they're rolling into the next patch could mean that breaks it, or something in it will break those fixes. You want bug free, you can get as close as Carbine can muster, but that means taking everything off the assembly line and making sure every single component works with each other flawlessly before putting it out. These things take time. So you want to put major changes out at once, in a build that will definitely work together with as few gaps as possible. Obviously, weekly and random drops was only creating more problems as people were working in different versions of the client. To reduce the bugs, this is how it has to be done. EDIT:  I kind of figured this is how any feedback from the devs would be received on anything. No wonder they don't talk to us anymore.


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I would like them to communicate that they understand exactly how game breaking it is and when it will be fixed. Not knowing when your interrupts are available in a game where coordinating interrupts is a core mechanic is a little more than a "pet peeve".


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Bugs happen across everything. The class fix you think is an isolated bit of mechanical system isn't isolated and it could have extremely deep roots in control mechanics that, if patched, could have all kinds of weird unintended consequences. What if Spellslinger cooldowns are built on timers that are checked for validity by the server, and thus trigger finger procs need to be integrated with that? What if a world buff speeds up timers, but they don't want it to speed up that particular timer? These things don't exist in a vacuum; if it was just a value that needed changed, it would be done already. It's obviously not.

Whatever your thoughts on our need for content, if trigger fingers gets broken by anything in the new version, or even if something is breaking in it now with the version they want to release and thus they KNOW something's wrong, you get bugs.


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Missed this the first time- the fix already exists. And even if it didn't, it broken when they nerfed the utility CD on it. At worst they can rollback that change. Better for slingers to be slightly OP (it wasn't a huge nerf anyway) in PvP than have a core mechanic broken that affects both PvP AND PvE.


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First one that comes to mind is the threat buff on the PTR that isn't in the game yet. Right now, warrior tanks are complaining about being almost worthless. Here's the problem with your argument, because they COULD do this, but...

This is what they've been doing. People complained about bugs, that this was generating more bugs than it should. Lots of things are "fixed" on the PTR but might immediately be broken by things now being added. This is why the announcement was made; people complained about the bugs. This is how to get fewer bugs, by not making everything a weekly hotfix. Everything is someone's most hated bug.


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I understood what I was asking for on August 3rd when the class was originally broke. I think many of us have been more than forgiving with carbine giving them over a month to fix some things, but now they make a post saying they want an additional month because "we've been so helpful" That's bullshit i'm sorry, I was patient enough.


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First off, things are broken right now. You're acting as if holding back the bugfixes doesn't hurt because it gives them time to perfect it. No, it means broken things right now continue to be broken every day. Yes, bugfixes might break other things. That's why they are tested, and they have been tested, and the fix is complete. We just don't have access to it. Oh! But you say that they should hold off because future content might re-break the fix? Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Maybe they shouldn't release any bug fixes until all content is complete. I'd love to see you post on the Warrior forums (because it seems like your main) defending Carbine's decision to not fix Warriors because fixing Warrior threat could cause unintended problems everywhere. Edit: Stop acting as if this requires Carbine to drop everything and fix TF immediately. The fix already exists and was scheduled to go out on the next patch. We're asking Carbine to not bundle the bugfixes patches with the content drop so that everyone can get their bugfix patch as originally scheduled.


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Thats the thing though, the new content (i.e. the Defile) isn't the reason your bug fixes are being delayed. I don't understand how people can read the original post and come away thinking that the patch is being delayed to work on new content. It is pretty clear that the delay is because of system changes and additional bugfixes. As for why some bugs are being held back for the major content patches and some go in weekly patches or even hotfixes, all I can do is refer you to this post from Cougar.


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Have you ever heard something you didn't want to hear? That's completely possible. I appreciate carbine for coming out and telling us the plans but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on them. It's pretty evident you're in the minority here and you can argue until you're blue in the face but the bottom line is the vast majority of the players still left playing this game are extremely unhappy and this isn't going to fix ANYTHING. Telling people to wait another month for fixes is probably one of the dumbest ideas they've ever had. e/ Trigger Fingers is an example of a bug, the SS class has about 10 off the top of my head that I can think of.


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You thought it was the Sabotage BG that caused bugs? Bug fixing on a fast schedule causes them. If you want your fixes off the new system, that's fine, but if it causes bugs, you can't complain. This kind of thing is why they're doing this in the first place. Honestly, if we're going by sheer importance, things like TF and warrior threat aren't affecting more people and causing them to leave. As I said, hope you get your fix since I didn't ask personally for work to come to a halt on everything to integrate everything. Don't expect me to get on Carbine if they don't or if things break due to it. This is exactly what they were asked to change.


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I don't thing the sabotage drop caused the bugs - I know they did. PvP wasnt broken until the day of the drop. Vality Burst, Trigger Fingers, Sustain wasnt bugged until the day of the drop. I am arguing that releasing content on a monthly basis when the base product isnt fixed is causing more issues and we want to break that cycle. Not add 2 months worth of bug fixes and content and systems changes into one patch - which will likely end up causing just as many if not more issues than we have seen with Drop 2.


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^  this So basically people are arguing in this thread because they want The Defile cause that's about the only thing that's ready. For some reason they think all the redesigned systems they just started working on a week or two ago are done. The Defile has been being worked on since before launch. I think the main problem is people don't understand how long it actually takes to design and implement things in a video game. Edit:  If the game causes you to get so emotional at the devs just do everyone a favor and take a break. Don't act like a child and storm off saying you'll never come back if the game isn't perfect NAOWWWW. Act like an adult, take a break, come back a few months down the road and see if they fixed it the way you wanted. This need for instant gratification is ridiculous.


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Here, Scerick.

It's not content.


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Why does there have to be a priority between TF and PvP fixes. Both are ready on the PTR, push them to live. If a random bug pops up, that's what hotfixes are for. Both (TF and PvP) are really broken right now. Spending a month looking for a bug and probably still not fixing it is not the answer.


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So then your issue isn't with content patches per se, but more with their bug triage system? Again, I don't know why the Trigger Fingers bug fix was put into the content drop, but at this point it is not the new content that is delaying the bug fixes, so I don't understand why you keep trying to blame it.


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So are you going to "update" ALL of us on when the merges are coming or what you're doing to HELP the population problem??????? Oh it's cool just keep milking $20 from all the people who want to actually play and enjoy the MMO. Ridiculous


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As far as I know, this hasn't changed significantly in the switch from beta to live.


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Lol I thought they were hitting the breaks to fix it all when it was already taking a month. The new pvp gear is on the PTR, why can't they push it out? They said they want healers to heal for less than before but more than now, why can't the change those values and move it out now? Numerous adjustments to engineers and warriors on the PTR, why can't they push that out now? Spellslingers TF bug, HTTC healing bug, all gone on the PTR. What's the reason for delaying those things an extra month? I don't get it.


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You've been quoting me while you post, lumping me in with those complaints. My first post:

We got de-railed from my complaint. The complaint that I don't want to wait any longer for fixes that are already on the PTR. Edit: and just to be clear - I realize I did entertain the idea that the new content was delaying the patch - but I didn't presume that was the cause.


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No, Carbine's never been more than 250 people unless you count NCSoft's support staff. And not all those are coders. Carbine has AAA money because of NCSoft, that doesn't make them anywhere near the size of Blizzard. Blizzard has (at least as of 2009) over 4,000 people and 600 subsidiary staff working on nothing but World of Warcraft. Hell, according to the article, they have 51 artists. That means WoW's concept art department is a quarter the size of Carbine. They're not big.

I've gone over this. I can repeat it if you'd like, but I can refer you to quite a list of reasons to delay the content drop to get other things built in. In summary, because dropping in the new content patch when they have bugs and system issues is unpopular and we asked them not to do it. A lot of the stuff on the PTR might be changed considerably by what they're changing. We'll have to wait to see what they're delaying, what they're putting in, and even if this spectral lack of hotfixing is even going to be an issue.

Considering how well the launch went and that I go off other peoples' bug reports (since I haven't noticed anything gamebreaking, so I have to take as read that things are), they're doing pretty damn well. People didn't think they were fixing bugs fast enough and everything needed more testing. So they're halting the content drop and fixing everything to test it. I'm not going to sneer down my nose at them.

Stats aren't tied to the list item; that's not how it's set up. Regardless, it isn't a coding issue, this stuff's on the PTR right now. They introduce a new way to build stats to fix all the complaints flooding in from everywhere else, it's all complete bollocks. This is a lot more complicated than you think it is, especially if they have something planned for itemization.


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